tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post1925895516394874885..comments2024-03-28T23:20:49.777-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Pinchas, Bamidbar 28:15. Se’ir izim echad le’chatas lashem. Flexibility in Psak and Eilu Ve'eiluEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-40089417841959301882008-07-18T15:12:00.000-05:002008-07-18T15:12:00.000-05:00mea maxima culpa.RABBI Divrei Chaim.mea maxima culpa.<br>RABBI Divrei Chaim.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-67191981583471043322008-07-18T13:51:00.000-05:002008-07-18T13:51:00.000-05:00Linguistically, to "pasqen" is to "...Linguistically, to "pasqen" is to "end" the viability of the rejected shitah.<br><br>Going to my shadow metaphor, it's like trying to superimpose two shadows, made by shining the light at the object from different angles. What you're left with doesn't represent the original. Tarta desasrei.<br><br>It's only when we can't pasqen using real rules of pesaq, and instead use rules of doubt and birur, that I could see the validity in adding it as a consideration.<br><br>-michamichahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13610506439687098313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-72065002326433148392008-07-18T13:47:00.000-05:002008-07-18T13:47:00.000-05:00If Eilu veEilu means that they're both true, a...If Eilu veEilu means that they're both true, and the difference is only in which aspect of the truth we plan on utilizing, then the implication would be that relying on a da'as yachid as a snif lehaqeil are very real.<br><br>-micha<br><br>PS: I'm pretty sure it's "Rabbi Divrei Chaim".michahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13610506439687098313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-24133453748353294172008-07-18T13:44:00.000-05:002008-07-18T13:44:00.000-05:00Micha, thank you for your comment. I don't kno...Micha, thank you for your comment. I don't know whether we are addressing the same thing. You are dealing with eilu ve'eilu. I am talking about what "Psak Halacha" means, and whether a person who is someich on some obscure daas yachid is doing wrong; What would you say about someone that relies on the shittah that machshirei milah are docheh shabbas? Or that there isn't even a derabanan requirement to shecht birds? Or that doesn't say hallel on Rosh Chodesh? Or any of the myriad daas yachids that nobody paskens like any more? Is he in trouble or not? If he could do these things in a case of hefsed/tzaar, then he is just being oveir on not doing what orthodox jews do, but he wasn't oveir on any other issur. So Torah is almost hefker! If you find some shittah that is mattir, or if you yourself look through the sugya and decide something, then go ahead!Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-92044323891130733342008-07-18T12:35:00.000-05:002008-07-18T12:35:00.000-05:00Well, I hear R' Zvi Lampel will be coming up w...Well, I hear R' Zvi Lampel will be coming up with a new edition of the Dynamics of Dispute. In the meantime, you might want to see my blog entries on the subject, giving <a href="http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2005/03/eilu-vaeilu-part-i.shtml" rel="nofollow">R' Moshe Halbertal and R' Michel Rosensweig's takes on the subject</a> and <a href="http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2005/03/eilu-vaeilu-part-ii.shtml" rel="nofollow">my own two cents</a>.<br><br>In any case, the Maharal (Be'er haGolah, near the beginning) writes that pesaq is the art of mapping Divrei E-lokim Chaim to the limitations of mapping that into the real world. Each captures part of a truth too complex for the human mind. Sort of like a 2D shadow of a 3D object.<br><br>-michamichahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13610506439687098313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-12278946967352385152008-07-16T12:29:00.000-05:002008-07-16T12:29:00.000-05:00Go ahead. Yagdil Torah ve'ya'adir.My rosh...Go ahead. Yagdil Torah ve'ya'adir.<br><br>My rosh yeshiva, zatzal, always used to tell us that there is no masig gevul in torah organizations.<br><br>Until his grandson's yeshiva was threatened by another guy who wanted to open up nearby.<br><br>I guess that story is on topic, actually. There is halacha, and there is halacha ve'ein morin kein, and there is halacha for the shiur klali that is different then the real world. Reb Moshe and Reb Yakov both used to say that when they paskened without hachra'ah, and they had to chose between the MB and the Aruch Hash, they always went with the AH, because he was a Rov of a town, not a Rosh Yeshiva.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-20862631925062817112008-07-16T11:05:00.000-05:002008-07-16T11:05:00.000-05:00I want to do a post on this same topic - please gi...I want to do a post on this same topic - please give me a shout if you have any objections. ThanxChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-49379438005684633292008-07-16T07:41:00.000-05:002008-07-16T07:41:00.000-05:00The R' Elchanan is in vol 1 of the Koveitz Ma&...The R' Elchanan is in vol 1 of the Koveitz Ma'amarim (in the black 2 vol edition) in the essay (or section) devoted to Agudas Yisrael. <br><br>>>>if it's true, it's true, and all the hefsed in the world doesn't makea a difference.<br><br>You've just restated the same thing as a fact, but that doesn't explain why. Just like the truth that I don't like vanilla ice cream is true only in the context of comparing chocolate to vanilla, what the posek declares halachically true may be so only in a context absent hefsed. You need to prove that halacha is a necessary and not contingent truth, and I'm not sure that is easy to do.Chaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-52889468174563496062008-07-15T15:33:00.000-05:002008-07-15T15:33:00.000-05:00By the way, Mr. Divrei Chaim, this is not a critic...By the way, Mr. Divrei Chaim, this is not a criticism, because I also don't always bring exact mer'ei makom, but it would be nice if you could tell us exactly where Reb Elchonon says that thing you brought about the primacy of limud hatorah over asiyas mitzvos, and the indifference of the yetzer hara to asiyas mitzvos.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-49767233811671798772008-07-15T15:30:00.000-05:002008-07-15T15:30:00.000-05:00The Ketzos, in his hakdamah, talks about "lo ...The Ketzos, in his hakdamah, talks about "lo bashamayim hee" and "emes mei'eretz titzmach," and things like that, but after all is said and done, even he agrees that the poseik makes his decision on the basis of what he believes to be true. Now, if it's true, it's true, and all the hefsed in the world doesn't makea a difference.Barzilainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-23969605765189269752008-07-15T10:36:00.000-05:002008-07-15T10:36:00.000-05:00I'm not sure I buy the question. If you ask m...I'm not sure I buy the question. If you ask me if I like chocolate or vanilla ice cream, I am going to choose chocolate because I don't like vanilla. But given the choice of vanilla or strawberry, I will choose vanilla. Does it make sense to ask me why I suddenly chose vanilla when a minute ago I said I didn't like it? Did I speak falsely when I said I didn't like vanilla the first time around? <br>Hefsed and tza'ar are not necessarily just rules of psak as a process. They are rules of the reality of halacha as a contingent set of truths.Chaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.com