tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post6076688351777808735..comments2024-03-19T23:03:01.685-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Chayei Sara, Breishis 24:67. Lamp, Bread, and Cloud; A Different Perspective on Taharas HamishpachaEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-1276008354686988762012-11-11T11:30:49.908-06:002012-11-11T11:30:49.908-06:00Tal, I always am nervous that someone sees the pos...Tal, I always am nervous that someone sees the post in an early stage and reads the comments as they come in, and they don't realize that the post has changed in the interim, which is the case here, more than usual. <br><br>So I don't know if you saw the current iteration, but whether yes or no, I'm going to put in that Gemara to make it more clear in the post.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-21123254094344244662012-11-11T11:06:12.397-06:002012-11-11T11:06:12.397-06:00If we come up with some derush to link niddah to t...<i>If we come up with some derush to link niddah to the cloud, chalah and lamp line up blatantly.</i><br><br><i>Or... the anan in the mishkan and bayis rishon appeared between the two keruvim when we were zokhin. At those times, the keruvim would be hugging. Thus we see the anan as a statement of divine chibah, making taharas hamishpachah a physical counterpart.</i><br><br>I thought, more simply (although maybe equally derushy) that the anan is a sign of hashraas ha shechinah. (See Shemos 40:35, the cloud filling the Ohel Moed, and being "shochen" there.) <br><br>The gemara states that when a man and woman live together properly, they merit the shechina to rest between them. (Sotah 17a and Rashi there)<br><br>The anan above Sarah's tent was simply a sign of the shechinah that rested on Avraham and Sarah who live together as a proper Jewish couple.Tal Benscharnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-10384355820355019082012-11-06T10:29:38.804-06:002012-11-06T10:29:38.804-06:00Micha, I think I can combine 1. Ensuring that Tash...Micha, I think I can combine <br><br>1. Ensuring that Tashmish/creation of man take place in conditions of absolute purity<br>2. Hashra'as Hashechina manifesting as the relationship between husband and wife<br><br>and make something presentable. <br><br>The tashmish/creation of man alternatives will have to be examined, because they're not exactly the same.<br><br>There's nothing wrong with fishing when you have, as you say, such strong indicators that something should be there.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-24399702165526310212012-11-06T08:36:51.347-06:002012-11-06T08:36:51.347-06:00Here's a simpler one: The Abudraham on Friday...Here's a simpler one: The Abudraham on Friday night says, on our Gemara, דרש ההיא גלילאה עליה דרב חסדא אמר הקב"ה רביעית דם נתתי בכם פירוש הוא הדם הצלול שבלב שממנו משתית הלב וחיי האדם תלויין בו על עסקי הדם הזהרתי אתכם שלא תשמשו עד שתטהרו במעין ובור מקוה מים . So, obviously, the idea of Nidda is not the issur and the Tuma. It is the zehirus to make sure that tashmish will take place in conditions of Tahara Gemura. Maybe the Anan also represents Tahara, but I don't have any basis to say that.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-77161974782331085912012-11-06T08:16:29.459-06:002012-11-06T08:16:29.459-06:00Or... the anan in the mishkan and bayis rishon app...Or... the anan in the mishkan and bayis rishon appeared between the two keruvim when we were zokhin. At those times, the keruvim would be hugging. Thus we see the anan as a statement of divine chibah, making taharas hamishpachah a physical counterpart.<br><br>It's all derushy. If it weren't that the other two elements were so blatant, I would consider this a fishing expedition.Micha Bergerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-10336658382023587232012-11-06T08:12:42.576-06:002012-11-06T08:12:42.576-06:00This is what I'm thinking now: The Gemara in S...This is what I'm thinking now: The Gemara in Shabbos 31b says רביעית דם נתתי בכם על עסקי דם הזהרתי אתכם, and that's why zehirus in Niddah is vital. So we can say:<br><br>The din Nidda reflects the vital and the spiritual aspect of life;<br><br>Women are given the tafkid of nurturing that vital component. <br><br>Tuma is the obverse of Tahara; nidda is the obverse of the preciousness of that revi'is dam.<br><br>The Anan is the Hashra'as Hashechina; it is the communal equivalent of the revi'is dam in the individual. <br><br>∴ Nidda corresponds with the Anan.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-18658993335253403862012-11-05T22:12:29.089-06:002012-11-05T22:12:29.089-06:00I probably shouldn't have brought down the Yer...I probably shouldn't have brought down the Yerushalmi and the Tanchuma. They just muddle the issue. All I needed was the association of the three elements by Sara/Rivka to the equivalents in the Midbar.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-74586295528328156162012-11-05T21:50:58.405-06:002012-11-05T21:50:58.405-06:00I was afraid to solicit suggestions because the tw...I was afraid to solicit suggestions because the two are so unrelated, and it's so unlikely someone's going to come up with something good, and I was nervous about getting hare brained drush that I would have to say "Ah, very nice, but I'm not sure I understand exactly...."<br>Tznius and privacy? First of all, niddah is not a din of tznius. Second, the Anan had nothing to do with tznius in that sense.<br>One of the svaros of Niddah is to generate a sense of renewal, to prevent getting bored, and the Anan was like a Chuppa? Meh. Not absurd, but if it were a Medrash, I would shrug and say zol zain azei. From a contemporary, I would say it's good enough for a speech, but not very convincing.<br>Bedamayich Chayi, referring to shiva nekiim and the seven weeks leading to Matan Torah? That has nothing to do with the Anan.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-22061421061127539782012-11-05T19:47:47.772-06:002012-11-05T19:47:47.772-06:00על שלש עברות נשים מתות בשעת לדתן, על שאינן זהירות ...על שלש עברות נשים מתות בשעת לדתן, על שאינן זהירות בנדה ובחלה ובהדלקת הנר.<br><br>If we come up with some derush to link niddah to the cloud, chalah and lamp line up blatantly.Micha Bergerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.com