tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post6426058051664588772..comments2024-03-28T23:20:49.777-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Eikev, Devarim 9:15. And Moshe turned and descended from the mountain. Interesting Twists on the Turn.Eliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-91730373450860480102011-08-19T08:03:21.363-05:002011-08-19T08:03:21.363-05:00Incorporated. Have a good Shabbos. Still waiting...Incorporated. Have a good Shabbos. Still waiting for news from the Nobel nominating committee.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-80210856575401472392011-08-19T04:38:30.910-05:002011-08-19T04:38:30.910-05:00updates:1. R"Y ibn Shueib's pshat (actual...updates:<br><br>1. R"Y ibn Shueib's pshat (actually he also quotes R"Ch) is in his Sefer here http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/vl/ebenshueb/ebenshueb25.pdf (right, l.20)<br><br>2. Rav Kasher quotes the Alshich and comments he did not find this Midrash anywhere, so there is probably no point looking.<br><br>3. R. Yeshu'a, brought in Ibn Ezra, Shmot 10:6, preceded the Alshich (btw, I believe he was a Karaite)Elihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12793717193734899866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-21276144276414115602011-08-18T10:03:24.235-05:002011-08-18T10:03:24.235-05:00Thank you, Eli. I've written it into the post...Thank you, Eli. I've written it into the post.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-14515278661026729072011-08-18T03:17:07.361-05:002011-08-18T03:17:07.361-05:00Using Otzar Hachochma I found this:http://hebrewbo...Using Otzar Hachochma I found this:<br>http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=38866&st=&pgnum=40&hilite=<br><br>So R. Chanan'el and R"Y Ibn Shueib both understood ואפן to say exactly the opposite - i.e. to say he was going backwards.Elihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12793717193734899866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-81899274356290801872011-08-18T03:10:54.832-05:002011-08-18T03:10:54.832-05:00R. Yaacov Kamenetzky (Ki-Tisa) says that since Has...R. Yaacov Kamenetzky (Ki-Tisa) says that since Hashem told Moshe קום רד <b>מהר</b> מזה, he went as fast as he could. Again, this does not explain the second time. However, in a footnote the editor brings another version in which R. Yaacov said that since he went down as a Shli'ach of Hashem, he didn't have to go backwards. This idea could apply to the second time as well.<br><br>See also Or Hachayim in Ki-Tisa (32:15).Elihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12793717193734899866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-16868104213047557362011-08-17T08:45:43.880-05:002011-08-17T08:45:43.880-05:00A) I saw the Kesef Mishna. So he says it doesn&#...A) I saw the Kesef Mishna. So he says it doesn't really mean walking backwards. Maybe that will help me understand the Netziv, which I re-read, and can't make head or tail from. Very annoying.<br><br>B) So walking backwards is as important for the effect on the student as it is for the teacher's awareness of the honor.<br><br>C) Nosei es nos'av applied to the Aron when the luchos were inside. I personally believe that there is no din hotza'a on helium balloons, and the limudim from Masa Bnei Kehas is only regarding carrying above ten tfachim in reshus harabbim, but not regarding an object that carries itself.<br><br>D) I looked at the Rogotchover again, and he does say that it was because of Yom Kippur. Why wouldn't it be Yom Kippur? Weren't the mitzvos chal at the first mattan torah? And although we associate Yom Kippur with Moshe coming down the second time, that doesn't mean that it wasn't nikva until then. I was hoping that the second luchos were on Shabbos, like the first, but seven times 17 weeks is 119, so apparently the second luchos were on Friday.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-75260957363016004272011-08-16T15:13:59.183-05:002011-08-16T15:13:59.183-05:00a) regarding walking backwards/sideways, see the K...a) regarding walking backwards/sideways, see the Kesef Mishna, 7 Bais Habechira 4.<br><br>b) Rava's behavior teaches a lesson about the meaning of respect for Torah, in that Rav Yosef was blind and was unaware of Rava's behavior until informed.<br><br>c) The issue of chai nosei es atzmo cannot be dismissed so easily because<br> i) the Torah calls it a massah<br> ii) while the luchos may have been nosai es atzmam, what about the aron - which was not just tofel to the luchos but had an individual din of kli shores. Of course it weighed several tons [I don't have the time now to reproduce the calculations I did decades ago] even not counting the kapores, and it had a metzius of nosei es nos'av.<br>Which even ignoring chai nosei es atzmo makes the whole sugya very difficult<br><br>d) The Rogatchover's approach requires [surprise, surprise] a lot of deep thought - after all, it was the tenth of Tishrei, but not Yom Hakippurim. Was anybody fasting?<br>Was this a din like leil shimurim?<br>Was it Yom Hakippurim b'ko'ach even if not b'peol? Was there already an inyan of shlosha sforim niftachim?great unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-3116020668530286782011-08-16T07:37:41.118-05:002011-08-16T07:37:41.118-05:00Daniel commented that he doesn't like the Netz...Daniel commented that he doesn't like the Netziv's idea that Moshe turned to avoid injury as he walked down, and that it seemed to him to be a banal and, especially in this context, a pedestrian thing to say. My only response is that the week is far from over.bnoreply@blogger.com