tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post6639419561701228532..comments2024-03-28T23:20:49.777-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Terumah, Shemos 25:15, The Physics of Metaphysics: The Aron Hakodesh and Its BadimEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-30094921672272932152010-02-18T14:43:12.087-06:002010-02-18T14:43:12.087-06:00Micha, that's why I was pleased with the title...Micha, that's why I was pleased with the title-- the physics of metaphysics.<br><br>Anyway, the letters on the back of the luchos were in reverse order, as the Gemara in Haboneh (104a) says, ואמר רב חםדא כתב<br>שבלוחות נקרא מבפנים ונקרא מבחוץ כגון<br>נבוב בובן ה<(רהב בהר) םרו ורם<br>although I know that this Gemara is mysterious (Tosfos) and is said to comprise deep secrets, but pashut pshat is that although the individual letters came out unreversed, they did come out in reverse order.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-61402074981198875732010-02-18T14:22:52.802-06:002010-02-18T14:22:52.802-06:00I'm not sure I would play this game -- assessi...I'm not sure I would play this game -- assessing the physics of something ascribed to a violation of nature. That said...<br><br>In relativistic terms, gravity is the shape of spacetime in a given region. If the presence of the aron compressed the space around it to compensate for the room of the Qodesh haQadashim that it occupied (a different version of the game than yours), it would have a negative mass. (Like dark energy.) Negative mass would mean gravitational <b>repulsion</b>. Not only would the aron not fall, but could actively lift itself the people carrying it "<i>nosei es nos'av</i>". And actually, its not flying away when not held down would be a neis.<br><br>Also, space is altogether distorted by the luchos themselves, in which text carved all the way through said the same thing from both sides, rather than the back having a mirror image.<br><br>-michamichahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-67482147057892920082008-02-14T22:43:00.000-06:002008-02-14T22:43:00.000-06:00Josh, I didn't suggest that the Aron had no vo...Josh, I didn't suggest that the Aron had no volume. I said that since the Aron had no relationship to any particular point in the physical universe, it could therefore not effect or be effected by objects that had a specific position. Then I said that an object that is completely uneffected by gravitational forces would have to be analogous to an object that had no mass. <br>Chaim, thanks for the reference to Josh's site. Josh, thanks for making what was already murky murkier. Now I know how the members of my shiur feel when I'm discussing the difference between Psik Reisha delo nicha lei and Melacha she'eina tzricha legufa.Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-24854205386525111092008-02-14T16:43:00.000-06:002008-02-14T16:43:00.000-06:00The fact that an object has no volume need not mea...The fact that an object has no volume need not mean that it has no mass. To the contrary, the smaller its volume, the larger the gravitational effect that its mass would have. <br><br>Hence, as per Prof. Simon's objection, the concept of nosei es nos'av would not seem to be symptomatic of a lack of mass, but rather of an independent gravitational force that counteracts the gravitational force of the earth - although if the aron has mass one would have to postulate the generation of some force that enables its separation from the surface of the earth when its carriers "lift" it up.<br><br>Of course, there's no reason that nosei es nos'av need be based on an opposing gravitational force - it could also be based on an analog of an electromagnetic force or of weak or strong interactions, but I'm not sure exactly where one would go from there.Josh M.http://www.blogger.com/profile/14414532577328945154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-33188717932112373062008-02-14T16:08:00.000-06:002008-02-14T16:08:00.000-06:00The idea of speed of light and mass and all that o...The idea of speed of light and mass and all that other scientific stuff is also discussed by Josh in his post here:<br>http://haprozdor.blogspot.com/2008/02/dimensional-oddities-in-mishkan.html<br>I barely have a layperson's understanding of these areas, so I can't comment.Chaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.com