tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post7617250484325459516..comments2024-03-19T23:03:01.685-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: The Money Laundering AllegationsEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-61974656770438186372007-12-27T18:13:00.000-06:002007-12-27T18:13:00.000-06:00While I agree that they probably wouldn't stea...While I agree that they probably wouldn't steal from an individual, I think the reasoning is somewhat different. The government is a nameless faceless entity. I suspect that is why they feel free to defraud it of taxes. <br><br>As for "who on God's earth would have thought that such a miserable, execrable person existed that would masser them?" I suspect that the government agent that made them the deal thought so.I doubt that they massered just because.<br><br>Certainly the same person who could rationalize why it's OK to commit fraud is capable of reasoning thusly. "If I don't cooperate, then I will certainly go to jail (unless Barzilai Esq. can get me off <:-) ). Going to jail entails a possible sakanah (he may have been threatened with real jail and not some prison-lite). If I cooperate the other parties may be able to make a deal which will keep them out of jail and just have to pay heavy fines. So, it's my sakanah versus their money so I should cooperate"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-51465419518464914432007-12-27T15:23:00.000-06:002007-12-27T15:23:00.000-06:00But the truth is that you probably agree with the ...But the truth is that you probably agree with the underlying premise of my apologetics. I don't think that any of the people involved would actually steal money from other people. Do you? Let's assume you agree with me on that point. If so, why did they think this was less immoral? Don't you have to think about that as well?<br><br>It's hard to respond to being characterized as ludicrous, because that term expresses an adamantine and unchangeable opinion makes dialogue difficult. Furthermore, you begin your comment with two conclusory statements, "is ludicrous" and "is silly". This too lessens the likelihood of a thoughtful give and take.<br><br>My point was that some crimes are punished not because of their inherent wickedness, but rather to force compliance. Not giving money to the government is simply a refusal to comply with the government's demand. This refusal is not on par with refusing to pay a loan or fraudulent business transactions. The fact that the penalties are so great is only to force compliance.<br><br>"To excuse money laundering as a large scale equivalent of paying cash for cleaning service is silly."<br>A quantitative difference does not always mean there is a qualitative difference. It certainly doesn't here.<br><br>"Those who laundered money were not likely motivated by their experiences with corrupt governments in Europe or elsewhere."<br>I believe that, as Dr. Sarna said, there is an ingrained attitude in certain groups that stems from centuries of oppression. This meme, or more, is impressed into members of the group and is close to indelible. Furthermore, it is the sense of 'otherness' that is essential to the survival of groups that so obviously don't fit into American society that leads to a feeling of "us vs. them."<br><br>And finally, I certainly agree that they were wrong to expose themselves to even a small risk of exposure, considering the extent of the chillul Hashem. But who on God's earth would have thought that such a miserable, execrable person existed that would masser them?Barzilaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-89785916932106199472007-12-27T12:43:00.000-06:002007-12-27T12:43:00.000-06:00The appologetics demonstrated by your post are nea...The appologetics demonstrated by your post are nearly beyond words. To equate speeding and money laundering is ludicrous. To excuse money laundering as a large scale equivalent of paying cash for cleaning service is silly. It is the magnitude of the crime which in fact categorizes it as a misdemeanor or a felon. <br>The issue here is Chilul Hashem and the magnitude of Chilul Hashem is reflected in the magnitude of the crime. Is there a greater aveira? Had the story involved some other non-Jewish religious group would you have been so understanding? I doubt it.<br>The rebbe is unfortunately going to take the brunt of the burden as an enabler even though he may not have personally gained from the alleged crime. By being an enabler he and his colleagues certainly violated lifnei iver. Those who laundered money were not likely motivated by their experiences with corrupt governments in Europe or elsewhere. They were people of means who had made their money in this society and system and know its strengths and weaknesses. They simply thought they had another way of increasing their wealth and doing some good at the same time by helping out a worthy mosad. (Read the indictment if you have doubts).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com