tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post2280266013032826106..comments2024-03-28T23:20:49.777-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: A Lesson for the Three Weeks– From Our Great Teachers, Ben Gurion and AchavEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-5539653124732049062007-07-12T10:14:00.000-05:002007-07-12T10:14:00.000-05:00Coincidentally, this morning, during shachris, I s...Coincidentally, this morning, during shachris, I saw a letter from the Gerrer Rebbe printed in the Likutei Yehuda, in which he discusses Rav Kook. He says that he is a kodosh vo'tohor, maybe even a sonei betza (!), but his love for Eretz Yisroel blinds him to the faults of the secular Zionists.<br><br>To your point: Maybe you're right, Chaim. But I feel that the truth is closer to the Achav model, as was brought up in earlier comments. Ovdei Avodah Zarah and Son'ei Das they can be, but if they are united and are working for what they see as the benefit of Klal Yisroel, they can turn the heavens upside down. To say that our ruchnius was the spark that gave power to their energy and will may be theologically correct, but it sure looks like wishful rationalization. They did it, our contribution was too little and too late, and basically we just came along for the ride, to reap the benefits and complain that it isn't the way we want it to be.BARZILAIhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-88021723288860369262007-07-12T09:55:00.000-05:002007-07-12T09:55:00.000-05:00The idea that we (religious jews) are the ruach th...The idea that we (religious jews) are the ruach that can elevate the guf created by the secularists is found in Rav Kook - nothing offensive about that. But I think you miss something, and I apologize for being a bit mystical - however the State was established, nothing can happen in this world which does not reflect a change in the olamos ha'elyonim. There would not be a possibility of a State unless somehow we had in ruchniyus earned the right to once again use the Land as a kli in avodas Hashem. And how much ruchniyus over 2000 years it must have taken to be zocheh to Yerushalayim again. You are looking at secularists as the root cause and asking where the ruchniyus is when it is right there behind the scenes making it all possible.Chaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-77793623436838535952007-07-12T00:45:00.000-05:002007-07-12T00:45:00.000-05:00Strange, indeed, about Achav. Rav Meir Simcha, in ...Strange, indeed, about Achav. Rav Meir Simcha, in his Meshech Chochmah on Parshas Beshalach, says that in Achav's time, the people were united and kind to each other, and this made them invulnerable to external threats, all this despite their Avodah Zarah and hatred for the Torah.BARZILAIhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-39693540783348995082007-07-11T14:32:00.000-05:002007-07-11T14:32:00.000-05:00Achav was certainly a kofer a rotzeiach and one of...Achav was certainly a kofer a rotzeiach and one of the most successful military leaders of malchus Yisroel.<br>Apparantly Hashem chooses his agents and we can only stand and wonderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-21774222231246664112007-07-11T11:04:00.000-05:002007-07-11T11:04:00.000-05:00Also, note that it was only the "rotzchim&quo...Also, note that it was only the "rotzchim" part that elicited shock.<br><br>See also <br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_ProposalBARZILAIhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-68441968316675690702007-07-11T10:30:00.000-05:002007-07-11T10:30:00.000-05:00Bad writing on my part. What I meant was that thes...Bad writing on my part. What I meant was that these traits were very well represented in the Zionist leadership; I don't mean the Chovevei Tzion and the other religious groups, but rather the ones who truly were effective in realizing the dream of recapturing the land. <br>As for the 'rotzchim':<br>Altalena<br>Kastner <br>and<br>http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/lhr/19.1/lubanBARZILAIhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-26294970233526836542007-07-11T04:39:00.000-05:002007-07-11T04:39:00.000-05:00"the majority of the really effective Zionist..."the majority of the really effective Zionists were kofrim be’ikor, sone’ei Torah, rotzchim, communists and socialists"<br><br>rotzchim??<br>what exactly do you mean?nachumjnoreply@blogger.com