tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post5329155001436581198..comments2024-03-28T23:20:49.777-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Thrips in Strawberries: Serious Concern, or Hyperbole?Eliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-32956760034269898132008-08-28T21:31:00.000-05:002008-08-28T21:31:00.000-05:00It's not the dead wasps that are the problem: ...It's not the dead wasps that are the problem: it's the larvae. Those obviously survive or there wouldn't be any more mamma and papa wasps.<br><br>An alternative solution is that by the time the fig is eaten, the larva have all figged out, metamorphized to adults and flown away, but for that to be true the fig would have to be moth-eaten (forgive the change of genus) indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-52235317686821017072008-08-28T20:05:00.000-05:002008-08-28T20:05:00.000-05:00That is a fascinating article! But there's no...That is a fascinating article! But there's no way I can believe that only parthenocarpic figs are kosher, no how, no way. I still think that the dead wasps melt away. I really don't think they remain intact as the fig grows around them.Barzilainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-15237762103986854812008-08-28T17:47:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:47:00.000-05:00An answer to the bug question about figs may be fo...An answer to the bug question about figs may be found in this article:<br>http://archaeology.about.com/od/domestications/a/fig_trees.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-9427026539582870382008-08-28T17:43:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:43:00.000-05:00Interesting point on your reference to the common ...Interesting point on your reference to the common fig. If they reproduce primarily on this season's wood, they are not 'giz'o machlif' and are a borai pri ha'adamah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-33953734732368462152008-08-28T17:41:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:41:00.000-05:00I wasn't referring to the 'al ha'aretz...I wasn't referring to the 'al ha'aretz' heter but to the 'shoretz' heter - ayin Y.D. 84:6. The chumrah I was referring to was the one brought in the Shach s.k. 19.<br><br>It is amazing that there still remain enough lacunae in the web of overlapping and oft self-contradictory chumrot that we can survive. As Reb Yaakov is reputed to have said (free translation from the Yiddish): "They don't want to let us eat."<br><br>BTW, from the next s'if (if I remember correctly) you find that if you keep dried figs or dates for over a year from the date (not a pun) of picking - in a sealed container of course, there should be no problem. However, there are those who claim that the 12 month heter does not apply in sealed containers, or refrigerators, or with preservatives, etc. These are the kind of "it must be ossur, let's come up with a reason why" arguments that make simple ba'alei batim like me wonder if these people need a "shara lei morei."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-37465629511882868952008-08-28T17:31:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:31:00.000-05:00First: The source for my comment about shoreitz is...First: The source for my comment about shoreitz is YD 84:6.<br><br>Second: I'm thinking that if the wasp cannot exist without the fig, and the fig cannot exist without the wasp, then it could be that it is muttar, because the wasp is bateil to the fig by its very nature. This, of course, is base speculation, until I have a tzushtell.<br><br>Third: regarding the types of figs:<br>From http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/homefruit/fig/fig.html<br>Note, please, that there are two types of parthenocarpic figs. Parthenocarpic, from the Latin Parthenos, Virgin, like in the Parthenon. No pollinators needed.<br><br>Fig Types<br><br>Four distinct horticultural types of figs are described in this publication.<br><br>Caprifig. The Caprifig produces a small non-edible fruit; however, the flowers inside the Caprifig fruit produce pollen. This pollen is essential for fertilizing fruit of the Smyrna and San Pedro types. The pollen is transported from the Caprifig to the pollen-sterile types by a Blastophaga wasp. Commercial growers hang baskets of Blastophaga-infested Caprifigs so that the wasps can effectively fertilize the fruit. Caprifigs were grown successfully at Del Rio before 1901.<br><br>Smyrna. The Smyma fig varieties produce large edible fruit with true seeds. The Blastophaga wasp and Caprifigs are required for normal fruit development. If this fertilization process does not occur, fruit will not develop properly and will fall from the tree. Smyrna-type figs are commonly sold as dried figs.<br><br>San Pedro. These figs can bear two crops of fruit in one season--one crop on last season's growth and a second crop on current growth. The first crop, called the Breba crop, is parthenocarpic and does not require pollination. Fruit of the second crop is the Smyrna type and requires pollination from the Caprifig. Breba produces early in the spring on last season's wood. However, the second crop of the Smyrna type may fail to set because of lack of pollination from Blastophaga and Caprifig. This second crop fruit drop discourages homeowners.<br><br>Common Fig. These figs develop parthenocarpically without pollination and are by far the most prevalent fig grown in Texas. The fruit does not have true seeds and is primarily produced on current season wood. Varieties recommended for Texas are of common fig type.Barzilainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-67893499293088678652008-08-28T17:15:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:15:00.000-05:00A careful reading of wikipedia and the site you qu...A careful reading of wikipedia and the site you quoted seems to contradict your "...not all figs are pollinated the same way." The relevant quote on figweb is:<br><br>... for fig trees are completely dependant on tiny wasps, a couple of millimeters long, for their propagation and survival. These fig wasps are the sole pollinators of fig trees and in turn, fig wasps can breed nowhere else but inside figs, a relationship that is a classic example of an obligate mutualism (neither party can survive without the other) that has evolved over the last 60 or so million years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-21822118333652658652008-08-28T17:00:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:00:00.000-05:00By the way, I don't think the ahl ha'aretz...By the way, I don't think the ahl ha'aretz thing works here, since the figs are mechubar lekarka. That only helps if they developed in a fruit that was talush and never walked out.Barzilainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-67854377147351195142008-08-28T16:45:00.001-05:002008-08-28T16:45:00.001-05:00Well, not all figs are pollinated the same way. Bu...Well, not all figs are pollinated the same way. But that doesn't really address the issue. My guess is that they decompose before the fig ripens. I'm still checking, though. <br>Here is a fascinating site on the topic:<br>http://www.figweb.org/Interaction/index.htmBarzilainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-80904759793553833042008-08-28T16:30:00.000-05:002008-08-28T16:30:00.000-05:00There is one issue with insect infestations that s...There is one issue with insect infestations that seems to have slipped under the radar. Edible figs are pollinated <b>exclusively </b> by specific wasps, who simultaneously lay eggs in the figs [see the wikipedia article on figs]. I assume this has been mai'kadmas d'na unless a massive evolutionary change has occured.<br><br>Thus, figs should be <i>prima facie</i> osur to eat - and yet they are one of the shiva minim. Ela mai, there may be a "Shoretz al Ha'aretz" heter - but who is somaich on that today?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com