tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post6058175080614770233..comments2024-03-19T23:03:01.685-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Vayeishev, Breishis 38:2. What to Look For in a Mechutan.Eliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-49252568253069511642010-11-25T11:04:33.481-06:002010-11-25T11:04:33.481-06:00Note that so far nobody has brought up the alterna...Note that so far nobody has brought up the alternative of actually getting into a sugyah for the sheer pleasure of it, including, and perhaps especially, rischa de'oraysa. <br><br>Lita, where have you gone?<br><br>This brings to mind the Telzer Rov's dictum that one may not say Torah in a beis hakvaros. [Yes, I know that's a halacha going back to the gemora; his application is the dictum I am referring to.]great unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-71745340803088261672010-11-23T12:54:32.052-06:002010-11-23T12:54:32.052-06:00I like a comment with good citation form. I just ...I like a comment with good citation form. I just can't imagine asking the shadchan "Does she know who her father really is?"bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-44003743371632534362010-11-23T12:50:08.837-06:002010-11-23T12:50:08.837-06:00See Rashi Yevamos 42b (and Kiddushin 70b)...if you...See Rashi Yevamos 42b (and Kiddushin 70b)...if you know who your father is...you have yichus!<br><br>(however, Tos' in Yevamos 47b and Kiddushin ibid. argues...another chumra people have taken on)Lubchahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397040216501167612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-22885894529558463762010-11-23T09:29:31.097-06:002010-11-23T09:29:31.097-06:00That reminds me! When my kids were going out, I us...That reminds me! When my kids were going out, I used to warn them to not allow themselves to be distracted by superficial and unimportant things. If a person is intelligent, and kind, and refined, and from a good family, you should not let that distract you from what's really important in a spouse: is the person very rich?<br><br>I have a sort-of-relative who was going out with a very wealthy man. On one date, he asked her, "Tell me the truth. Do you like me because of who I am inside, or because I'm filthy rich?" She answered, "Tell me the truth. Do you love me because of who I am inside, or because I'm drop dead gorgeous?" After that conversation, they realized they were perfect for each other, and they are long and happily married.<br><br>Never before has Invei Hagefen Be'invei Hagefen been so true.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-40564600040076190052010-11-23T07:54:08.739-06:002010-11-23T07:54:08.739-06:00Drush, by it's nature, stems from the attitude...Drush, by it's nature, stems from the attitude of the darshan, not from the words of the passuk. That being the case, you have to be more careful, if not critical, listening to drush than to halacha, because drush is opinion and attitude projected onto the passuk. <br><br>To tell the truth, I really don't see this drush vort as being anywhere near pshat in the passuk. I think it was meant to use Drush format as a vehicle for criticism of the common notion that marrying into wealth is an unmitigated boon. It certainly is wonderful if the spouse is a kind and decent person who also is insulated from the financial worries of basic life. But if you choose a rich boor over a regular mentsch, you might regret it.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-68437489266017497902010-11-23T03:45:12.923-06:002010-11-23T03:45:12.923-06:00I'm saying I don't see the basis for this ...I'm saying I don't see the basis for this dvar torah. Even assuming yichus matters how do we know Shua had no yichus? And the fact there is no medrash saying that he learned in yeshiva hardly proves that he lacked refinement. This just seems like speculation. It also seems that the answer came before the "question". As far as learning in Yeshivat Shem Vaever, even accepting that they really kept all the mitzvot (which i don't) are we really going to judge a non-"Jew" (or whatever the avot are considered) for not learning there? And maybe he did!<br><br>"But evidently there were certain familial characteristics that distinguished them from the others in their area"<br><br>Why? Because they were good people? It seems clear that they were good DESPITE their upbringing, not because of it. Or is it impossible that the avot cared more about the character of the woman they were marrying than her family?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-56614346515263856382010-11-22T22:00:00.053-06:002010-11-22T22:00:00.053-06:00Look, I can't help that Chazal say that Yichus...Look, I can't help that Chazal say that Yichus is valuable. Obviously, Rus came from a bad yichus, and was the mother of the house of David. But all things being equal, yichus matters.<br><br>Rivka etc. came from families of hoodlums. But evidently there were certain familial characteristics that distinguished them from the others in their area.<br><br>What did yeshivas Shem Ve'Ever teach? I believe that our Torah and even all the dinim derabanan are part of an ancient tradition that was formalized in Matan Torah. Avraham and Lot ate Matza before there was a yetzias mitzrayim and there was a mitzva of milah and gid hanasheh and yibum and so forth.<br><br>Refinement and learning can be good things, I think. They're no guarantee, as we saw in the highly educated Germans murderers and exquisitely refined Japanese vivisectionists during World War II. But sometimes they are good. I think they're preferable to crass vulgarity and hedonism.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-15285860197873414932010-11-22T20:16:48.571-06:002010-11-22T20:16:48.571-06:00So instead of saying that Yehuda married a canaani...So instead of saying that Yehuda married a canaani, we're going to say he was shallow and only after money? Also what does "refinement and learning" even mean? I understand refinement, but were any of the imahaot from "families of learning"? Certainly Rivka, Rachel and Leah weren't. And while they may have had other qualities that offset their bad childhood influences, so might have this daughter of Shua.(Also, there was nothing to learn, and even accepting that Yeshivat Shem Vaever existed in the sense of a institution of torah learning there would be no chiyuv for this Shua person to learn whatever pre-Matan Torah yeshivas taught anyway) Finally, a person who only looks for a wealthy shidduch (regardless of yichus) and then raises bad children probably only has their own skewed sense of priorities to blame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com