tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post6922748062864083136..comments2024-03-28T23:20:49.777-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Lulav before Shachris-- A Tadir Kodem ProblemEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-30346066998685550762018-07-11T22:40:46.120-05:002018-07-11T22:40:46.120-05:00Sorry I didn't see the comment. The Blogger pr...Sorry I didn't see the comment. The Blogger program is having problems.<br />Fantastic. I wish I had time to do it justice so I could put it in the piece. I'll have to do it by snipping and pasting. Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-61275115078780644982018-07-04T15:22:05.519-05:002018-07-04T15:22:05.519-05:00See Minchas Asher on parshas pinchas. He deals wi...See Minchas Asher on parshas pinchas. He deals with this Rav Moshe and connects it to a machlokes Tosfos and Talmidei R Yonah Brachos 28a regarding mincha/mussaf precedence when the zman mincha strikes. Talmidei R Yonah seem to say that since I plan to daven mincha later, there's no clash now, so no need to apply Tadir kodem. However, Tosfos needs to invoke the advantage of davening mincha ktana. If not for this advantage, tosfos would have said you are obligated to daven mincha first. <br />TRY like RMF, and Tosfos is the other wayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-49219514296741795892015-09-30T10:02:39.768-05:002015-09-30T10:02:39.768-05:00B"H, the many tirdos between Y"K and Suc...B"H, the many tirdos between Y"K and Succos render today the "rishon leCheshbon Bais Vaad". I believe that all the Tzedadim of this issue have been presented beautifully in this post so "Kol Hamosif Goreia". I just wonder why you didn't bring Tosfos in Brachos 28a who seems to be saying exactly like your maskana in paragraph d"h "We realized..." Gut Yor and Gut Moed to all! Yehuda OAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13971092695459275934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-46593432052088374032015-09-30T09:54:27.664-05:002015-09-30T09:54:27.664-05:00That story with Rav Shach is fascinating. It's...That story with Rav Shach is fascinating. It's a perfect maaseh Rav, encapsulating both halacha and hanhaga tova.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-80031508906210601042015-09-30T09:54:08.306-05:002015-09-30T09:54:08.306-05:00That story with Rav Shach is fascinating. It's...That story with Rav Shach is fascinating. It's a perfect maaseh Rav, encapsulating both halacha and hanhaga tova.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-22869386459129838182015-09-30T00:26:18.712-05:002015-09-30T00:26:18.712-05:002 thoughts -
1) Rav Shach reportedly davened Scha...2 thoughts - <br />1) Rav Shach reportedly davened Schacris beyechidus because of todir on the one hand and al tifrosh on the other. That means that an al tifrosh that we would not even consider to be a prisha, i.e. bentshing lulav before hallel even though no one else is, was enough to be mechayev a shachris beyechidus. <br />2) I always benshed lulav before davening in the sukkah, because I had been told that you can't have a cup of coffee before you do so. A couple years ago, after learning this Reb Moshe, I decided that the zman for lulav isn't until after shachris, so I can have coffee before davening and do like Reb Moshe. Then when I come home I shake lulav again in the sukkah, since the Ari holds the ikar netila is in the sukkah. Still not sure if it's a good cheshbon.Tzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15362895893167544658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-23805305756793829982015-09-27T16:05:19.193-05:002015-09-27T16:05:19.193-05:00I'm not sure it changes anything, but once you...I'm not sure it changes anything, but once you've said brachos, you are really down to a derabbanan of tefilah vs. lulav. Does a tadir derabbanan take precedence over a non-tadir d'oraysa?<br /><br />Assuming you can say kiddush before tekiyos, why would you not do so given that kiddush is certainly more tadir than tekiyas shofar? (Unless you use your sevara that it's not a chiyuv b'etzem because you could fast.)<br /><br />I thought the non-AR'I minhag is based on the fact that the na'anuim are a cheilik of the mitzvah, so you want to do your netilas lulav before hallel to include the na'anuim there in your bracha.<br /><br />I'm always afraid of writing at times like this (1.5 hours before Y"T) because the later and more rushed it gets, the greater the liklihood of my saying something completely nonsensical. Have I reached that point yet? (Chaim)Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-13106801635458838302015-09-27T15:27:50.305-05:002015-09-27T15:27:50.305-05:00The reason nusach A does it after Musaf is because...The reason nusach A does it after Musaf is because the Tur in tarnat says to do it like that: the Bach says the reason is to do it like that because it's zecher l'mikdash, and in the Mikdash they did it after the korban musaf. Reb Moshe OC III 99 adds that as far as tadir of mussaf vis a vis the hakafos, it's not an issue because mussaf is a chiyuv and hakafos is not a chiyuv per se.<br />Thanks for the he'ara.<br />Also, we should remember the Shaagas Aryeh, that the idea of tadir only applies to chiyuv, not to reshus. I'm not sure how that plays out here, though.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-23087073908675271432015-09-27T11:18:32.339-05:002015-09-27T11:18:32.339-05:00So I assume you say hosha'anos after musaf bec...So I assume you say hosha'anos after musaf because musaf is certainly tadir relative to hosha'anos? Why is that not the reason brought down for doing so? (from Chaim. I am sure there is an easy answer to this that I should realize before writing.)Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.com