tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post9140514632058521834..comments2024-03-18T22:43:28.754-05:00Comments on Beis Vaad L'Chachamim: Bilaam and AestheticsEliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-16808447410572309422016-07-26T07:32:05.929-05:002016-07-26T07:32:05.929-05:00Yes, Reb Micha, that's exactly right. I do wan...Yes, Reb Micha, that's exactly right. I do want this to be a place where people think out loud, even if they're thinking about Star Trek. I have exactly the same crowd at my Shabbos morning Kiddush, and I love it- even when the philosopher at the table thinly veils his contempt.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-71625063783871170072016-07-26T05:58:11.796-05:002016-07-26T05:58:11.796-05:00Or, as R' Rakeffet puts it, alongside quoting ...Or, as R' Rakeffet puts it, alongside quoting that gemara: Many of the world's great accomplishments were produced by a guy trying to impress a girl.<br /><br />But in any case, if the logic you're presenting doesn't work for Nakh, isn't that a problem anyway?<br /><br />One might ask when Borkhi Nafshi was written in relation to the incident with Bas Sheva, but I don't know if I want to compare David even at his low-point with a common hedonist. I just raise this because you want the blog to be a place to think out loud...micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-24962537850772405832016-07-26T00:37:17.354-05:002016-07-26T00:37:17.354-05:00I think your shiurim would still have a lot to off...I think your shiurim would still have a lot to offer. But I'll leave it with you. I have never heard of Rav Moshe Brown nor heard his shiurim but will endeavour to do so since you have recommended him. From a quick google search though, it seems he only has a few masechtos that have been recorded and put online.Avrohomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-72323856644413185522016-07-25T22:06:16.086-05:002016-07-25T22:06:16.086-05:00Thank you, Avrohom. My wife, whose expertise in li...Thank you, Avrohom. My wife, whose expertise in literature goes far beyond her doctorate, strongly disagrees with me here. She says I should change "lust" to "desire," and even if I change it, I'll still be wrong. It's good to know that someone agrees with me.<br />As for the daf recordings, I can't. Rav Moshe Brown, my chavrusa many years ago, does it so well that I can't imagine improving on it.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-71288791024854660682016-07-25T19:00:16.653-05:002016-07-25T19:00:16.653-05:00Rav Eisenberg - although I am completely unlearned...Rav Eisenberg - although I am completely unlearned relative to you and your other readers, I do agree with your post. I think it is clear that it is Bilaam's words, just "changed" by Hashem so that we see the other perspective originally buried in those words. I also assume that the ferociousness, power, and rawness of the words of Bilaam were preserved, just Hashem turned them in the opposite direction. Just like the same fire can burn and destroy something or add light and clarity, so were the words of Bilaam. Hashem just showed us the light and clarity perspective of the words (the klala perspective however was still hidden within the words as Rashi points out). <br /><br />I know I have mentioned this in the past, but I really think you should consider recording and posting your daf yomi shiurim on this blog. It would be really useful for many people like myself, who are involved in this world, to hear a serious talmid chochom, who is eloquent, thoughtful, deep and interesting give a daily daf yomi shiur. Hope you will consider this suggestion. Avrohomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-40510857016569560282016-07-25T09:40:00.326-05:002016-07-25T09:40:00.326-05:00Yes, Borchi Nafshi is extraordinary, which is why ...Yes, Borchi Nafshi is extraordinary, which is why I only mentioned the ones in Chumash.<br />Your mention of that ST episode also reminded me of the Gemara in Yoma 69b, that although the Anshei Knesses HaGedola destroyed the yh of AZ, they decided that all they could do was attenuate the yh of Arayos, because the world could not exist without it.<br /> ויצעקו אל ה' אלהים בקול גדול מאי אמור אמר רב ואיתימא ר' יוחנן בייא בייא היינו האי דאחרביה למקדשא וקליה להיכליה וקטלינהו לכולהו צדיקי ואגלינהו לישראל מארעהון ועדיין מרקד בינן כלום יהבתיה לן אלא לקבולי ביה אגרא לא איהו בעינן ולא אגריה בעינן נפל להו פיתקא מרקיעא דהוה כתב בה אמת אמר רב חנינא שמע מינה חותמו של הקב"ה אמת אותיבו בתעניתא תלתא יומין ותלתא לילואתא מסרוהו ניהליהו נפק אתא כי גוריא דנורא מבית קדשי הקדשים אמר להו נביא לישראל היינו יצרא דעבודת כוכבים שנאמר (זכריה ה, ח) ויאמר זאת הרשעה בהדי דתפסוה ליה אשתמיט ביניתא ממזייא ורמא קלא ואזל קליה ארבע מאה פרסי אמרו היכי נעביד דילמא חס ושלום מרחמי עליה מן שמיא אמר להו נביא שדיוהו בדודא דאברא וחפיוהו לפומיה באברא דאברא משאב שאיב קלא שנאמר (זכריה ה, ח) ויאמר זאת הרשעה וישלך אותה אל תוך האיפה וישלך את אבן העופרת אל פיה אמרו הואיל ועת רצון הוא נבעי רחמי איצרא דעבירה בעו רחמי ואמסר בידייהו אמר להו חזו דאי קטליתו ליה לההוא כליא עלמא חבשוהו תלתא יומי ובעו ביעתא בת יומא בכל ארץ ישראל ולא אשתכח אמרי היכי נעביד נקטליה כליא עלמא ניבעי רחמי אפלגא פלגא ברקיעא לא יהבי כחלינהו לעיניה ושבקוהו ואהני דלא מיגרי ביה לאיניש בקריבתה Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-48024451357868682032016-07-25T09:28:08.697-05:002016-07-25T09:28:08.697-05:00Yes, so perhaps had Moshe been given shirah as nev...Yes, so perhaps had Moshe been given shirah as nevu'ah, it would have been even more beautiful! For example, Borkhi Nafshi was "merely" Ruach haQodesh...<br /><br />I am just saying that we have no point of comparison to make the contrast you are trying for.<br /><br />Although you did remind me of this Star Trek episode which highlighted the positive uses of the yh"r <a href="http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Enemy_Within_(episode)" rel="nofollow">The Enemy Within</a> (TOS s1e4)micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-73157452138948180582016-07-25T09:19:19.781-05:002016-07-25T09:19:19.781-05:00Now I understand your criticism- that Bilaam's...Now I understand your criticism- that Bilaam's original intent would not have been expressed as Shira or poetry, it would have been a discordant and ugly curse. I hear. But perhaps all I'm saying is that in the end, it may be the same music and the same violinist, but there is going to be a difference between playing on a fiddle and playing on a Stradivarius. Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-2850099234773526902016-07-25T09:11:25.943-05:002016-07-25T09:11:25.943-05:00What you see from the Rashi is that Hashem reverse...What you see from the Rashi is that Hashem reversed Bil'am's themes. There is no way they could have been his words, or even all but a few key adjectives have been his words. And even if in some way the sentences could be made to flow with the opposite adjectives, would the initial intent still have had the poetry?micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-67785135931096335502016-07-25T08:42:29.398-05:002016-07-25T08:42:29.398-05:00Thank you, Reb Micha. I tried to anticipate (bavoh...Thank you, Reb Micha. I tried to anticipate (bavohrn) your answer in the post, but it must not have have been clear enough. I will re-write it.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6453787673476195995.post-80152449812861128792016-07-25T05:48:22.251-05:002016-07-25T05:48:22.251-05:00Maybe it's not because of Bil'am, but bec...Maybe it's not because of Bil'am, but because of G-d. After all, Az Yashir and Haazinu were written by Moshe. Great navi, but the songs themselves were not actual nevu'ah. But Bil'am's song was placed in his mouth by the Creator *despite* what he wanted to say. Not only nevu'ah, but HQBH medaber mitokh gerono...micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.com