Blasted by Commenters at Hirhurim

So there was a discussion on the Hirhurim Blog about being mochel one who wronged us, and someone made the comment that there was no such chiyuv. I responded that while there was indeed no such chiyuv, it was a good idea. A pretty basic concept, certainly not a novelty, as I explain below. Read on to see what squirmed to the surface in response. And the real surprise is that I have been banned from posting there. Having been banned, my only option is to explain the basis for my comment below, after the comments I elicited, copied here.
UPDATE: I have been, at least momentarily , unbanned.

Comment #1:
For the record, there is no chiyuv to forgive someone if they have not even asked mechila once (and even if they did ask, one is not always chayav to forgive them then either).

Some (many/most/all in some circles) people recite a prayer every night before sleep, saying that they forgive everyone who sinned against them, but that is not obligatory, meikkar hadin. If someone recites such a prayer and it is valid, there should be no need to ask them mechila.
anonymous

Comment #2, My Comment:
For the record: We create, through our behavior to those that wronged us, the standards that the Ribbono shel Olom applies to our failings. We may not have any chiyuv to be mochel anyone. And the Ribbono shel Olom may not have to be mochel us either.
Barzilai


Comment #3:
Barzilai - ure goin on the premise that there is a reason by default for g-d to need to be forgiving. Lets say I was perfect and I never forgave anyone that screwed me over would g-d apply my standards of not forgiving any screwball or others to his judging of me and my life of perfection .Why does g-d base his judging on what a fickle human would base their judgin of neighbors and screwballs on .Lets not forget everything or alot of stuff that g-d needs to forgive one on is predestined and hardcoded in the brain circuitry wiring and chemical levels or imbalances.Stuff like poor impulse control/attention span issues/not understanding stuff/emotionally needy/sexually needy ... and other fun shortcomings and failings are not choice oriented they are pure and unadulterated destiny/preprogrammed/hardcoded stuff. No trace of free will in sight.I'm not even sure what they did in the ancient biblical times without Ritalin /Adderall/Concerta/Strattera/ or even like happiness helpers like Prozac and Wellbutrin and other fun medicinal assistance .....Alot of stuff that needs to be forgiven can be traced to simple chemical imbalances which are so not the fault of the individual sinning or whatever .
Jaded Topaz

Comment #4:
For the record: We create, through our behavior to those that wronged us, the standards that the Ribbono shel Olom applies to our failings. We may not have any chiyuv to be mochel anyone. And the Ribbono shel Olom may not have to be mochel us either.

Rambam in hilchot teshuva has a different take - does not explain it as tryint o win browny points with God then emulating our behavior. I fanything, ti is the opposite. By being foregivefull we are emulating God.
J.I.


Comment #5:
"For the record: We create, through our behavior to those that wronged us, the standards that the Ribbono shel Olom applies to our failings. We may not have any chiyuv to be mochel anyone. And the Ribbono shel Olom may not have to be mochel us either.
Barzilai"

Barzilai - you and many who say stuff like that are trying to promote a new extra-halachic morality for the masses as a new standard for all, alebit through trying to sneak it through the back door under the guise of mussar or whatever you want to call it. I strongly object to that. You can tell people you think it's a good idea, but don't be smarter than Hashem. If Hashem didn't require it, it (unilateral mechila to all) is not the standard baseline conduct expected of all.
anonymous

(End of Comments)

So, what to make of this?

Do people not say Tefilloh Zakoh before Kol Nidrei? Do people not understand what “venafshi ke’ofor lakol tihyeh” means?

See Rosh Hashonnoh 17a: Rovo says, “Kol hama’avir ahl middosov, ma’avirim lo ahl kol p’sho’ov, shene’emar, Nosei ovon v’oveir ahl pesha: l’mi nosei ovon? L’mi she’oveir ahl peshah. Rashi there: ma’avir ahl middosov is one who is not m’dakdeik against people who pain him, and he lets go of his middos and goes on, “ein middas hadin m’dakdekes acharov, ello manchoso v’holeches.”

See R’ Yisro’eil Salanter in Ohr Yisro’eil 28, where he brings the Gemora Ta’anis 25b, that R’ Akiva was answered in his prayer for rain because he was a ma’avir ahl middosov, while Rebbi Eliezer was not. R’ Yisro’eil explains that R’ Eliezer’s middoh was equally valid, but since the Ribbono shel Olom is noheig middoh k’neged middoh, R’ Akiva, who was noheig middas horachamim, was answered, while R’ Eliezer, who was noheig middas hadin, was not.

I’m just flabbergasted. I thought that the concept of Middoh k’neged Middoh was well understood. Apparently, a lot of people think that we should emulate Hashem’s “pokeid Ovon” and “lo y’nakeh” instead of “Rachum v’Channun" and "Nosei Ovon v'Oveir ahl Pesha.”

Or maybe it’s just that the internet encourages people to shoot from the hip without thinking carefully.

My son’s voice coach told him that he needs to relax his jaw and talk from the back of his mouth. My son asked how he can practice this, and his coach told him to make believe that his jaw is not connected to his brain at all. Apparently, other people have been practicing this as well.