Chicago Chesed Fund

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Monday, June 19, 2023

Cameras in Shul

 Here is a question I received, and my response. 

I would appreciate your thoughts.


Hi Rabbi Eisenberg

I have an interesting question which I was wondering whether you or your learned blog readers might be able to assist me in coming to a conclusion. It relates to privacy and halacha (privacy being a very topical issue in the secular world today).

In our shul, the Rabbi put up CCTV cameras all over the place which is probably required for insurance and safety purposes. In our particular shul, I don't believe there are any signs notifying people that there is CCTV and that you are being recorded. I also believe that the Rabbi and/or Gabbai has access to the footage and can access that footage or the replay at any time. 

Do you think there should be clear signs that CCTV is videoing constantly and that these may be accessed by the Rabbi/Gabbai at any time for any reason? Do you think the Rabbi/Gabbai should be allowed to access those videos at any time and for any reason or do you think that it should only be allowed for particular purposes (like a claim on insurance or something criminal etc)? Do you think there should be rules about accessing that footage by himself in the Rabbi/Gabbai's room or there should at least have to be two people in the room (let's say two passwords that both people would need to put in) in order to stop the misuse of the CCTV and tempt someone to spy on people etc.

My own view is that I completely understand the need for CCTV but it is a shame that a shul, a place that you would like to sometimes have a private dialogue with Hashem, is now Big Brother and all of your actions in the shul are now possibly being watched or at least capable of being watched for no good reason.

Thank you

(...)


My response:

Hello  (...)

My shul also installed cameras all over, and they have been very helpful. We have an unfortunate individual in the community that cannot control his impulse to steal, and the footage has been helpful in forcing him to make restitution. 

Besides that, there is a genuine concern of vandalism or serious theft of sifrei Torah or silver implements or the contents of a tzedaka box, and a recording can allow the malefactors' apprehension and punishment.

But I know, myself, that I often do not remember the presence of cameras so that I should act as if I were in public.

When you call credit card companies or utilities you often hear a warning that "your call may be monitored or recorded." Federal law does not require this, but many states have laws which make it illegal to record phone calls without the consent of both parties. Those laws reflect exactly the concern you expressed. A shul, of course, is private property, and on private property, the owner, i.e., the board of the shul, can record whomever they want in public areas. I, too, have cameras in the public areas of my apartment building. 

Please note:  Every state has its own laws about security cameras. But I think that in every state, it is legal to make video recordings in areas where there is no expectation of privacy, even with hidden cameras. Most areas in a shul are not places where there is an expectation of privacy, due to constant public access.

But, federal and state law aside, you have a legitimate concern, and it would seem that as a  matter of derech eretz and respect, it would be best if an innocuous sign were posted reminding people, or informing guests, that they are being recorded.

You did not ask me in my capacity as a lawyer. You asked about the halachic perspective. From that perspective, I would refer to the laws of הזק ראייה. 

Whether  היזק ראייה is a form of injury is a machlokes in the beginning of Bava Basra, and the Gemara says that the concept is alluded to in the words of Bilaam when he looked at Klal Yisrael and וירא את ישראל שוכן לשבטיו and, as the Rashbam says, he was moved to say מה טובו אהליך יעקב.  
According to many achronim, everyone agrees that hezek re'iyah is a hezek, in that it results in embarrassment, boshes. The only machlokes is whether the obligation to avoid that damage devolves primarily on the one observed or on the one observing. Where the injured party has no choice but to do personal things in a certain area, everyone would agree that the other party is responsible for the harm. 

You are troubled by the lack of privacy to daven, to daven like only you and the Ribono shel Olam are present. This is reminiscent of the Mishna in Avos that עומדים צפופים ומשתחוים רווחים. This miracle occurred in order that the people should not be ashamed to say vidui with their neighbor listening. Your case is not quite that degree of intrusion; every one of us ought to cry during davening, and one who does, has nothing to be ashamed of.  כי אדם אין צדיק בארץ אשר יעשה טוב ולא יחטא, and each of us has much for which we tearfully beseech the Ribono shel Olam.

In this situation, as I said, it seems to me that the right thing to do is to post a reminder. I believe that the shul is entitled to place cameras, and people will have to adjust their behavior accordingly, but it is just fair to let everyone know.  Many people use the shul, some tough skinned, some more sensitive. It would be derech eretz to be considerate to everyone using the shul.


I am going to post this question (anonymously, of course!) and my answer, and we'll see what turns up.

UPDATE:
I got this from a friend in Israel.

A local shule used their surveillance tapes in court , when they were
trying to throw out a miscreant  [famous lawyer] who would show up to
shule on Shabbat with a bottle of something and serve his buddies as
well, and they would get rowdy

The shule LOST the case, because the frum judge didn't think being drunk
and rowdy during mussaf is a significant infringement on the rights of
the  [PRIVATE !!! ] shule  [ public accommodation?]

Fortunately he moved away immediately after the case , and i don't think
he's frum anymore either.

7 comments:

  1. The additional concern that I was interested in was the ability of the Rabbi/Board to access those videos without regulations/rules as to when they should be able to access them. I completely appreciate the need for CCTV - whether that is for insurance purposes or to stop vandals and theft etc. But when should the Rabbi/Board of the Shul be allowed to access those videos? Only when there is a significant monetary/insurance/health concern? Or should they be allowed to access the videos whenever they want and for whatever reason? For example if they just want to check who is davening nicely and who is talking? What about restrictions on looking at the women in the shul through the video footage? My feeling is that there should be strict guidelines as to when video footage is accessed and that should only be in cases of "need". I understand need will be hard to define but general guidelines can be drafted. And I don't think anyone should have access to the footage alone - if they need to access it there should at least have to be 2 people in the room - a bit like yichud. Otherwise, my concern is that we will have a lot of peeping toms in Shuls - even if their intention initially is lishmah and for good reasons. The yetzer hara is very cunning indeed and I do think "spying" will become more commonplace and end up ruining shuls - like that "Rabbi" that was peeping on the mikveh - unless strict guidelines are put in place to govern when and who and for what reason CCTV footage can be accessed.

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    1. Interesting idea, that two passwords should be necessary to access the recordings. I personally do not believe there is a problem. First of all, the rare exception does not make the rule. Most Rabannim and shul officers are people of the highest character. Second, and I know this is debatable, I believe that the victim of peeping, as in the case in Silver Spring, are not harmed unless what happened becomes known to the public. Here is my source for saying so: In Bava Kamma 86a, the Gemara poses the question, if one shamed someone (boshes) while he was sleeping, and he died in his sleep, is there liability? If boshes is liable because of embarrassment, he never learned of what happened and was not embarrassed. If boshes is liable because of public denigration, he is was denigrated. The only two theories are personal shame and public denigration. It appears to me that if one commits some act against someone where there is no physical effect, and the person is never aware of it, and the public does not know of it, there can be no liability.
      In other words, in the Silver Spring case, the victims were harmed only by those that publicized what had happened.
      In a better world, the villain would have been removed from and prevented from taking any other such position, but what he had done would not be publicized, even to the victims who would otherwise not know.
      What he did was wrong, and it was villainous. But nobody was harmed.
      Your case is so far removed from that case that it is hard to see that there is even a wrong being perpetrated.

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  2. Not sure if I agree with you re nobody was harmed. However, even if we say the victim wasn't harmed, the peeping tom was harmed and destroyed his own character. Rules are helpful to keep people from destroying themselves and the possibility of destroying others if it does become public.

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    1. Thank you for both the tone and the substance of your comment.

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    2. I'm not in a position to give any halachic input, however.....

      As far as the issue of "A Peeping Tom" it would seem to me that in a public area these days and with apparently the cost of cameras and recording equipment being so relatively cheap, there is really NEVER any expectation of privacy in public, including a shul. Your reference to the "rabbi" and the mikva was a camera in a mikva or bathroom. Now there it should be assur and illegal to be there. Certainly there it should be an assumption of privacy. I did know in the past of a dressing/changing rooms where there was concern of theft taking place and there were cameras even there. Well then they had VERY prominent sign excusing themselves but explaining the need for cameras there and supposedly assuring the patrons that they are only reviewed in cases where an issue occurred that required them to review the "tapes".

      Another question I have is years ago when these cameras first started being used in public and I remember by the Kosel too, cameras installed for safety, wasn’t an issue brought up about being photographed on shabbos and also your walking through was triggering the sensors?

      Seems no one is concerned about that anymore, what happened to that "Issur"?

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    3. All true. The only preserve of privacy in the modern world is behind our own locked doors.
      The kosel cameras remain controversial, with formidable poskim on each side, dealing with issues of psik reisha and perhaps misaseik. The problem applies equally in many areas where homes have motion detector cameras and lights. Some avoid the issue by avoiding walking alone. Even if triggering the camera is deoraysa, if it is done by more than one person it would be a derabanan, and much easier to deal with.

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    4. Shkoiach for answering, although it appears that despite the tumult (regarding shabbos) when these cameras first came out, now everone just goes on with their lives accepting them even though the halachic issue was never resolved. Kol Tuv.

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